Nora
Global Studies 2A
September 1, 2003
What keeps people from harming their enemies?
People will not harm their enemy, because of established beliefs. They either believe in it because they’ve experienced it culturally and personally or believe it to be the truth based on set cultural boundaries. People are just because they may lack courage, or live in fear of the consequences they may suffer if they stray away from common social concept. People’s actions are strongly guided by cultural and time related perceptions. If common social boundaries and principles weren’t shared by all civilizations would be left with no form of organization at all.
Cultures and parents begin educating new generations at an early age, before their children reach school age. What better way is their than to engage and enforce concepts in children than through story telling. Aesop’s fables has been used for centuries to demonstrate, and entertain, the best way to behave. Adults that were brought up on stories like Aesop’s fables carry these morals engrained in them for the rest of their life. In Socrates’ ideal city he explains that carefully forming stories to be told to all children with hidden lessons and perspectives is the best way to shape the future generation with the best ideals, like justice. “And surely they are, as a whole, false, though there are true things in them too. We make use of tales with children before exercises.”… “For at that stage it’s most plastic and each thing assimilates itself to the model whose stamp anyone wishes to give to it.” [54. 377a-c] Though the stories may be false and perhaps unrealistic that generation will grow up with these stories embedded or, as Plato says, their souls shaped [55.377c]. The purpose of these stories is to implant ideals such as justice so that it becomes second nature, just like in the twenty – first century it is implicit that no one should steal. If justice is valued among a group and harm is considered unjust then an individual is less likely to harm their enemy.
In the first half of book two Adeimantus believes that if a person has divine character than they will be just. “someone who from a divine nature can not stand doing injustice”. So divine people, if they have enemies, would not be willing to do harm to their enemies for they would not be willing to be unjust. Adeimantus believes if you aren’t divine, there is no reason, aside from knowledge, to be a just human being.
During the building of Socrates’ hypothetical city he builds an army, a good strong one. Socrates says that to make the army strong the soldier needs to be full of character in order to make the army successful. “Haven’t you noticed how irresistible and unbeatable spirit is, so that its presence makes every soul fearless and invincible in the face of everything?” [52. 375a-b] If it is strong character that makes it possible for a soldier to attack his enemy then it is the absence of character that prohibits an individual from attacking the enemy. “because of a lack of courage, or old age, or some other weakness, men blame injustice because they are unable to do it.” [43 366d] Some people can’t find the strength, physically, mentally or both, to harm their enemy.
Socrates argues, using dogs as a parallel to humans, that all things alien to humans become an enemy even if there was no offense made. But all people we know, even people we dislike we are kind, or at least courteous to . “You know, of course, that by nature the disposition of noble dogs is to be as gentle as can be with their familiars and people they know and the opposite with those they don’t know.” … “When it sees someone it doesn’t know, its angry, although it never had any bad experience with him.” [53. 375d – 376a] An enemy is formed simply by the unfamiliarity. “It distinguishes friendly from hostile looks by nothing other than by having learned the one and being ignorant of the other.” [ 53. 376b] If people were able to at least learn more about their enemy they might discover their really is no need to be an enemy with that particular person.
Adeimantus also believes that unless a person has gained a certain knowledge about injustice that others haven’t than that person will not commit that injustice. An individual “who has gained knowledge”… “keeps away from injustice” Whether it be a personal belief or cultural value that justice is good someone who wishes to be just will do so even if they have enemies.

When an individual has suffered from a pain than that person, in the future, will be more sympathetic towards others who have or who are experiencing the same pain. If the pain of the first individual was caused by someone else’s unjust behavior than they are less likely to cause someone suffering by the same cause for they can relate to that pain and wouldn’t wish the pain on any one else for they understand what it’s like.
“They say that doing injustice is naturally good, and suffering injustice bad, but that the bad in suffering injustice far exceeds the good in doing it; so that, when they do injustice to one another and suffer it and taste both, it seems profitable - to those who are not able to escape the one and choose the other – set down a compact among themselves neither to do injustice nor to suffer it.” [36. 358e – 359d]
People are less likely to commit the crime if they previously were the victims of the same crime.
Many people are concerned with image, social status, and reputation. A person will be just simply to own a good reputation. Or they will be just for fear of the consequences of their reputation or personal suffering. According to the story about Musaeus and his sons the unjust are punished both when they are alive and when they are dead, told by Adeimantus. “So in these like ways they extol justice. And, in turn, they bury the unholy and unjust in mud in Hades and compel them to carry water in a sieve; and they bring them into bad reputation while they are still alive.” [41. 363d-e] Humans, though they may not agree with their actions, will contradict their opinion in order to do what is considered right and just for the time out of fear.
Beliefs, lack of courage, perceptions, and fear of judgment do not guarantee that individuals will not harm their enemies. For their will always be people who stray from ordinary. What these ways of life do ensure is that most people will believe and teach this as the just way of life.


- posted by Rob Skiff @ 11:51 AM

 
Plato Reflection: “What keeps you from going out doing harm to your enemies?”
Andy Howe
8/30/03
If one were to ask the question of, “What keeps you from going out and doing harm to your enemies?” the majority of responses would be something lame such as, “because it’s wrong,” or “it’s not right.” These catchy phrases have all been preprogrammed notions that have been crammed into most everyone’s brain since we were young impressionable babies. Society as a whole has accepted these commonly known as; basic rules of life, such as no killing people or committing any form of harm. In Plato-terms, these rules and morals all just tag along with the concept of justice versus injustice.
Even with this common understanding stating that all people will not commit these acts, as we all know, people do them anyway. This is where the conflict of the justices comes into play. Throughout a society, the higher officials place rules and laws over the population. These rules and laws are put in place in order to establish some form of order, which serves the purpose bringing justice to the injustice. In terms of a literal meaning, justice is portrayed quite differently though a society. Justice is an eternal good through true deeds of which no desire for public recognition is sought whatsoever, but to a society through law; justice is,
“… a mean between what is best-doing injustice without paying the penalty-and what is worst-suffering injustice without being able to avenge oneself.” (359 a, page 37)
Societies come up with laws that formulate justice to their particular needs, the laws are shaped to most benefit the majority of the population in a way which is closest to the true meaning of justice. Punishments are assigned to crimes dealing with the justice policy of the society. These punishments highly influence in a positive way towards the actions, which the population choose to take. Now, if a person living in a city goes through his or her life without breaking any laws ever, this does not necessarily mean that this person is just.
This is where the confusion plays out with Plato. There are many cases where people are unjust but they have the illusion of leading the life of a just person and vice versa. People commit unjust acts all the time considering the degree to which they are able to go undetected. As one goes through life in a society, if they are careful, they have the ability to build a reputation for ones self. If someone creates a reputation for himself or herself as being a just man yet he commits injustices, he is golden. This person can now commit injustices and only experience the profits from that act and avoid the horrible suffering, which usually stops people from doing the injustice in the first place. It is evident through this quote in, The Republic of Plato, that this is in fact true;
“… he must be allowed to do the greatest injustices while having provided himself with the greatest reputation for justice. And if, after all, he should trip up in anything, he has the power to set himself aright; if any of his unjust deeds should come to light, he is capable both of speaking persuasively and of using force, to the extent that force is needed, since he is courageous and strong and since he has provided for friends and money.” (361 a; b, page 39)
It is very clear that having the reputation of being truly just even though one is not, the profits of injustice can still be enjoyed. The next quote from, The Republic of Plato, shows yet another dimension of the importance of a reputation,
“… a man simple and noble, who according to Aeschylus, does not wish to seem, but rather to be, good. The seeming must be taken away. For if he should seem just, there would be honors and gifts for him for seeming to be such. Then it wouldn’t be plain whether he is such for the sake of the just or for the sake of gifts and honors… his situation must be made opposite of the first man’s. Doing no injustice, let him have the greatest reputation for injustice, so that his justice may be put to the test… come to the extreme-the one of justice, the other of injustice- they can be judged as to which of the two is happier… the just man who has such a disposition will be whipped; he’ll be racked; he’ll be bound he’ll have both his eyes burned out; and, at the end, when he has undergone every sort of evil, he’ll be crucified and know that one shouldn’t wish to be, but to seem to be, just.” (361 b; c; d; e; 362 a, page 39)
Through this quote, it is painfully clear that it does not matter if you truly are just or unjust, what, in reality, only matters is what reputation you hold within a society. This importance of reputation is what holds back harmful spontaneous actions.
Getting back to the issue of, ’what keeps people from going out and doing harm to their enemies?’ I have covered one aspect, the desired reputation within a society, but another very important aspect deals with the concept of fear. Fear plays a very important role in preventing people from sinning and committing harm to their enemies. There is always the fear of having someone harm you as a result of your harm and then there is the fear of the conventional suffering of an injustice act. Plato makes it very clear that although injustice has profits, the suffering is far greater, thus having a desired reputation determines your lifestyle.
In the model city, which Socrates in the reading gives about a city in which he creates, high guardians would control and use propaganda to refine information about the ideals and goals of a society to their own needs. He speaks about how the gods are forever truly just and this ties into how having a reputation and preserving a reputation by not resorting to drastic measures on your enemy can, had, and will create and preserve a highly profitable and desired lifestyle. Socrates aims to achieve this goal by using poets and storytellers to write and speak in specific ways and tell certain altered stories. This brings us back to a reality shot and out of Socrates model world where artists reflect and ponder on such matters dealing with validity of the propaganda in which they are fed. For example, in the song, “Money,” by Pink Floyd, they reflect through this quote,
“Get a good job with more pay and you're O.K.
Money it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think I'll buy me a football team… Money it's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bullshit
I'm in the hi-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I'll need a Lear jet… Money it's a crime
Share it fairly, but don't take a slice of my pie
Money so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a rise it's no surprise that they're
giving none away.” (“Money,” Pink Floyd)
Money is a sort of modern evil that represents the profits of unjust acts. Specifically where it says, “Don’t give me that do goody good bullshit… I'm in the hi-fidelity first class traveling set…” the band is reflecting on how higher class people with this ‘do good justice reputation’, in reality, do not do justice at all. For in justice comes purity, and purity does not come from doing acts for profits, which is also presented in, The Republic of Plato. The band, Pink Floyd, has reflected that the goals of society are skewed in what happiness is; and for that matter, what a profit is. The minds of a population have been geared towards materialism and this uncovers the true flaw in the masterminded setup of capitalism. Through another song called, “Welcome to the Machine,” Pink Floyd thoughtfully comments,
“Welcome to the machine.
Where have you been?
It's all right; we know where you've been.
You've been in the pipeline filling in time… And you didn't like school,
And you know you're nobody's fool.
So welcome to the machine… And you didn't like school,
What did you dream?
It's all right, we told you what to dream.
You dreamed of a big star… So welcome to the machine.” (“Welcome to the Machine,” Pink Floyd)
The song deals with how materialism and knowledge are over-rated. The quote suggests with how it is still possible to be successful through means other than what the government has broadcasted. This all relates back the point of reputation. Through the world in which we live with the ideals of the government and through the realities of what is referred to throughout the quote as, “the machine,” that reputation has different importance to a population as a whole and individually. In what Socrates is saying, the public view of an individual success in being just has to do with the importance of acquiring and maintaining a reputation of justice through materialism. Pink Floyd’s reflections, however, highlight that justice can exist whether a person is a simpleton or not and still be happy if one’s world reality has not been skewed by the evils of materialism.
Out of the power of misfortune, we happen to live in a materialistic society created through a capitalistic lifestyle and government functions. The product of these materialistic ways, speaks to of greater benefit through the eyes of the majority of the population in the world today to have a reputation of being just as a high priority. Having this be a high priority and ideal to the morals of the population it is in the effort to preserve and maintain their reputation by seeming just and not committing obvious harm to one’s enemies. It is also out of the fear of losing one’s credibility to a reputation or social status by using drastic measure of harm towards one’s enemies. People see that the benefits of seeming just largely surpass the profits of blatant injustices. In conclusion, these reasons are the very ones that predominantly hold people back from doing harm to their enemies.





- posted by Anonymous @ 2:28 PM